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DA, you so silly!

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 8:20 AM
UPDATE: It looks like the faq was updated again to reflect that this only affects raffles where you pay something in to participate.. which to me looks like we're back to the original no lotteries rule which is cool by me. 




So, 
I'm sure you guys all remember everyone freaking out last week about the raffles/lotteries right?  Let me start off by apologizing to all of you that I told you were over reacting and that DA is not a derbis that wouldn't allow raffles which don't require you to pay in (lotteries) etc.. All will be well, I said :lmao:

Alright, looks like the faq was updated (or is it a brand new one even?  I don't know)
FAQ #894: Can I run a lottery, raffle, sweepstakes or other random drawing or game of chance through my DeviantArt account?

Games of chance (such as raffles, lotteries and other random giveaways) and fraudulent activity are prohibited on DeviantArt.
Our principal concerns are to avoid the exploitation of members of DeviantArt, prevent unfair treatment of deviants who are solicited to participate and avoid the appearance of impropriety from offers which are open to abuse as well as the various, and varying, laws restricting or regulating the conduct of games of chance in differing parts of the world. 
We encourage gift giving. We encourage trading points for art or art services. We encourage the solicitation of points as donations. 
Games of chance, however, solicit with a promise of potential reward and we have no adequate means to confirm that the “game” is conducted fairly or within the requirements of applicable law and because of these concerns we cannot allow them to be run through your DeviantArt account.

Excuse me while I choke on a giant penis!  WHAT!?

I'll keep in mind to give any future raffles some circle jerk reasoning so that it won't technically be a raffle, k?  Sure, we'll do that! 

Created at simplydevio.us
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:iconlintu47:
Lintu47 Featured By Owner Sep 30, 2015  Hobbyist Photographer
Ok, now it makes sense!
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:iconastralseed:
Astralseed Featured By Owner Sep 30, 2015  Professional General Artist
:nod:
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:iconmilkywaybubbletea:
MilkywayBubbleTea Featured By Owner Sep 29, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
So technically adopts would be breaking the rules too. I notice that a lot of people make adopts for other deviants to bid for, and a lot of them are expensive too.
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:iconastralseed:
Astralseed Featured By Owner Sep 29, 2015  Professional General Artist
bidding isn't a lottery :)
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:iconmilkywaybubbletea:
MilkywayBubbleTea Featured By Owner Edited Sep 29, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
But isn't bidding still based upon chance? I'm sorry, I don't know much about these kinds of things. Sweating a little...

Never mind. I don't know what I'm thinking. I just hope they don't decide to ban contests too, because those aren't lotteries.
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:iconastralseed:
Astralseed Featured By Owner Sep 29, 2015  Professional General Artist
I don't think they'd ban contests :)
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:iconkoushoku-jin:
Koushoku-jin Featured By Owner Sep 28, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
^^; I had to read that again; either the color, or my tired eyes to blame for, but I swear I thought I read that as "...this only affects waffles..."

At least it's all good -- as long somebody doesn't have to pay to join a raffle, that is :shrug:
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:iconastralseed:
Astralseed Featured By Owner Sep 28, 2015  Professional General Artist
haha yes, it should only affect waffles :lol:
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:icontherealwwefangirl12:
TheRealWWEFanGirl12 Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2015  Hobbyist Artist
Astralseed *coughs* #chokinghere SAY WHAT!?!?!?
Ummm has anyone notice that HALF THE DANG STUFF THAT IS HERE IS RAFFLES??!?!?!
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:iconastralseed:
Astralseed Featured By Owner Sep 28, 2015  Professional General Artist
I dono.. I know those stupid point giveaways are really popular and so a lot of people do them, but I tend to not watch those people and without the footer I don't see them all that often anymore. 
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:iconstygma:
Stygma Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
I don't understand anymore! The staff don't seem to know their own rules! :stare:
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:iconastralseed:
Astralseed Featured By Owner Sep 28, 2015  Professional General Artist
I imagine someone just made a mistake somewhere is all.
Reply
:iconpaulina-blomme:
Paulina-Blomme Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2015   General Artist
I don't know, but now the FAQ changed: 

Can I run a lottery, raffle, sweepstakes or other random drawing or game of chance through my DeviantArt account?

Games of chance (such as raffles, lotteries and other random giveaways which require a payment to participate) and fraudulent activity are prohibited on DeviantArt.

Our principal concerns are to avoid the exploitation of members of DeviantArt, prevent unfair treatment of deviants who are solicited and pay to participate and avoid the appearance of impropriety from offers which are open to abuse as well as acknowledging the various, and varying, laws restricting or regulating the conduct of games of chance in differing parts of the world.

We encourage gift giving; we encourage trading points for art or art services; we encourage the solicitation of points as donations; and we encourage points used as prizes in contests of skill - - all of these when conducted fairly and truthfully.

Paid games of chance, however, solicit with a promise of potential reward and we have no adequate means to confirm that the “game” is conducted fairly or within the requirements of applicable law and because of these concerns we do not wish them to be run through your DeviantArt account.
Reply
:iconsavaliste:
SAVALISTE Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2015   Photographer
I don't see why they even "ban" such things if it's your money then you do what you want with it...like in the real world with lottery :lol:
Reply
:iconastralseed:
Astralseed Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2015  Professional General Artist
I dono, in the real world (to be read as the US) you can't gamble unless you are 18, and I think even then it isn't legal in some states.  
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:iconsavaliste:
SAVALISTE Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2015   Photographer
lol no I'm not trying to get specific in each country just in general where and when you can gamble that's all on you and your choices with your money, want to take a risk that's their own doing.
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:iconastralseed:
Astralseed Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2015  Professional General Artist
Right, but DA being a US based company must follow those laws too.
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:iconsavaliste:
SAVALISTE Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2015   Photographer
yeah but DA isn't gambling or throwing lotteries it's members are... I dunno, I see your "technical" views but...NM... I don't feel like explaining my view so you win whatev :heart:
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:iconastralseed:
Astralseed Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2015  Professional General Artist
I think by law DA can't allow them... kinda like COPPAs etc.  The lotteries may not be run by DA but they are being run on their site which can be problematic for them, I think.  It's kinda like being a home owner and someone slips and falls on your property.. it's not your fault they slipped and fell but because it happened on your property they can take you to court over it.. 
Reply
:iconnichrysalis:
Nichrysalis Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2015  Hobbyist Writer
To be perfectly honest, there is nothing, absolutely nothing that enriches the deviantART community about allowing giveaways, raffles or lotteries and they need to be banned in their entirety. The problem is that there has been an extremely sharp rise in people buying points versus people spending those points since these lotteries, raffles, and giveaways, simply because it's more beneficial to the average member to distribute these points in a raffle, lottery, or giveaway in exchange for the attention a giveaway attracts. And it's beneficial to dA because a lot of those points are never redeemed or are passed around for years. You offer points, digital or physical rewards. People investigate the person behind the giveaway. Some people will continue paying attention to the person hosting the giveaway because their artistic preferences match up with the person hosting it. It's the "any press is good press" concept at work. However, the problem still remains with how focused the users have become at accruing fake wealth and not finding other people to collaborate and share stories with and befriend bond, you know, the things communities do. It's been three years and the community has gone from completely uninterested in points giveaways to point giveaways being the top hundred of dA's most popular journals, which is largely the reason behind the curation of the today page. If the today page wasn't curated, how long do you think it would have been until we reached a point where it would have been completely flooded with giveaways, many of them fraudulent and meaningless.

I don't come to dA to gamble. I come because I fucking love it here.
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:iconastralseed:
Astralseed Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2015  Professional General Artist
I think you are only seeing a small part of the picture, in the horse community we utilize raffles in various different COMMUNITY BUILDING ways (we don't do the stupid lotteries which I assume you mean to refer to here).  

Not all raffles involve points either.. again.. raffles are not necessarily the same as a lottery.
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:iconnichrysalis:
Nichrysalis Featured By Owner Sep 28, 2015  Hobbyist Writer
The focus of the raffles, lotteries and giveaways are still the problem (strictly in my opinion, not trying to persuade you, I hate when people do it to me), and if they weren't allowed, it's not the only tool in your arsenal you could use for community activities was my point.
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:iconastralseed:
Astralseed Featured By Owner Sep 28, 2015  Professional General Artist
we're going to have to agree to disagree on this.  I'm not sure what extent of these raffles you see around your parts,  but I assure you they are a beautiful community building thing in my parts!  (lotteries excluded, of course)
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:iconerzsabetdraws:
ErzsabetDraws Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2015  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
See that makes MUCH more sense.
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:iconastralseed:
Astralseed Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2015  Professional General Artist
it does indeed, but now it begs the question of why we've recently seem some that were not lotteries be removed for violating policy? 
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:iconerzsabetdraws:
ErzsabetDraws Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2015  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Yeah, that has me curious as well.
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:iconastralpeed:
Astralpeed Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2015  Professional General Artist
Immaletyou by Kenny-Winker  Pizza Rat by Kenny-Winker  Choose Your Fantasy by Kenny-Winker  Illuminati Pizza Co. by Kenny-Winker  Ghost N Daggers by Kenny-Winker  
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:iconexillior:
Exillior Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
Now I'm confused. I thought Farand's giveaway, which was removed, didn't ask people to pay to enter? I didn't have a chance to really look at it before it was removed but that was the impression I got.
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:iconastralseed:
Astralseed Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2015  Professional General Artist
I know there was another big one that was recently removed which wasn't a lottery.  I'm not sure what's going on but the faq was updated again recently and it goes back to reflecting lotteries specifically.
Reply
:iconexillior:
Exillior Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
... Unrelated but your new icon makes me hungry.
Reply
:iconastralseed:
Astralseed Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2015  Professional General Artist
haha, it will change again soon :P 
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:iconembrace-fate:
Embrace-Fate Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
Lawyers... That is the reason for this. The world is litigation crazy, so DA has to "go high and right" as we said in the Corps to ensure it stays out of a legal fray.
Reply
:iconthomasvandijk:
thomasVanDijk Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2015
They probably changed the rules back because it was harming points sales.
Reply
:iconastralseed:
Astralseed Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2015  Professional General Artist
I would think someone just made a mistake somewhere and it was never meant to be raffles outside of lotteries to begin with.
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:iconthomasvandijk:
thomasVanDijk Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2015
If it was a mistake, why did they both change the rules AND remove raffles? This was planned. Probably not planned well, but it was planned. I can't say for certain if it's the points sales that made them reverse it. They could just figure it's not worth chasing everyone who wants to hold a raffle, just like it's not worth to chase every art thief.
Reply
:iconastralseed:
Astralseed Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2015  Professional General Artist
Nah, I doubt that they sat down and thought to themselves, hey this will piss people off, let's do it!  
There are probably a lot of things happening behind the scenes that we just can't see here.  
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:iconthomasvandijk:
thomasVanDijk Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2015
No, they're not out to do it on purpose. It might have come from their lawyers or something.
Reply
:iconroguemudblood:
RogueMudblood Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2015   Writer
I think it's been changed to be worded more clearly since you posted this, because now it says:
Games of chance (such as raffles, lotteries and other random giveaways which require a payment to participate) and fraudulent activity are prohibited on DeviantArt.
I put the emphasis on "which require a payment to participate". So it's not raffles in general, but raffles which say, "You can get five more chances in this raffle if you donate ten points to 'X'." or something to that effect. Because people use the word "raffle" in that context, even though that is definitely a lottery, I can see why they would include raffles in their FAQ, but I don't think it's intended - especially given the amendment - to affect your general "enter your name in the pot for a chance to win" type of raffles. I do see where they might have issue with people doing the "watch me/fav this" to get an entry because that does mess with the metrics, which could be considered an exploit, I guess.

I've been away for a couple of weeks, so I'm just now seeing this and going back through my 11K notifications for groups/journals/polls/etc. and more than 200 for messages from individuals, so it's going to take me some time, so if you've posted something new since this went up, I apologize for being slow in getting to it.
Reply
:iconpaulina-blomme:
Paulina-Blomme Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2015   General Artist
Well xD I'm happy that they specified "Games of chance (such as raffles, lotteries and other random giveaways which require a payment to participate) and fraudulent activity are prohibited on DeviantArt." 
Reply
:iconroguemudblood:
RogueMudblood Featured By Owner Sep 30, 2015   Writer
Yeah, from what I gather (I've been off for a little while as I've been ill) it was originally a bit vague. Lotteries have always been against regs, because of the laws regarding games of chance, and in some cases that could actually be a reportable loss of income by some people, which would mean that DA would be the one approached by the IRS for verification - which they can't provide since they aren't hosting the lottery. So I can certainly see why they don't want something that requires a payment.
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:iconastralseed:
Astralseed Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2015  Professional General Artist
funny how it changed again to reflect exactly what the original rule actually way, AFTER they removed a raffle that did not meet those qualifications for breaking the rules :B
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:iconroguemudblood:
RogueMudblood Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2015   Writer
Oooh. That's not good. Hm. Well, I do know that it's showing up as the most recently edited FAQ, so maybe the person appealed the decision? Not sure - like I said, I've been a bit out of touch. I'll probably find it in a little while sitting in my inbox here... Glad I didn't just clear the thing, though, 'cause I'd've missed this and not noticed the update.
Reply
:iconastralseed:
Astralseed Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2015  Professional General Artist
Perhaps someone just made a mistake somewhere, can't blame people for being human afterall :) 
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:iconroguemudblood:
RogueMudblood Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2015   Writer
Too true! ;)
Reply
:iconseri-goyle:
Seri-goyle Featured By Owner Sep 26, 2015
This is about as crazy as my PTA needing a 1 time gaming license to run a Chinese Auction. dA probably doesn't want to run afoul of the many different gambling/gaming laws in the world.
Reply
:iconwoohooligan:
woohooligan Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2015  Professional Digital Artist
Yeah, they obviously got some kind of weirdo letter from an attorney and got scared about being sued... :|
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:iconastralseed:
Astralseed Featured By Owner Sep 25, 2015  Professional General Artist
Probably./
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:iconphoenixleo:
phoenixleo Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2015
:popcorn:
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:iconastralseed:
Astralseed Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2015  Professional General Artist
:P
Reply
:iconlintu47:
Lintu47 Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2015  Hobbyist Photographer
Excuse me, but WTF?! Really? Yes, this can be abused as can be literally everything and anything on this site, but to say that entering/hosting a raffle that is literally free to join is against your policy, well, let me be clear: fuck that!
Reply
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